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didadida

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終身 VIP

2007/09/10 17:42
器材: Nikon 尼康 其他

以下兩篇是取自 dpreview 刊登的討論文章。這是某位運動攝影師短暫使用 D3 的心得,一篇是有關夜間拍攝,一篇有關白天拍攝。 關於文章作者 Ed Betz ,各位如果覺得他的「動機可議」,獲發表評論的「資格」,可以先 google 他的背景資料。

兩篇討論的連結分別如下:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=24736304

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=24752213

*************            *************

I was covering the Mets game tonight and there were 2 D3's there. (今天晚上我拍攝紐約大都會的比賽,當場有兩台 D3 。)

I was allowed to shoot with one for a bit and I have a few comments.
(他們讓我試拍其中一台,我有幾點評論。)

First, let me say, that several years ago, I was a Nikon shooter, and when the D2H came out, I was VERY vocal about it's problems. (首先,讓我說明一點,幾年前,我曾經是 Nikon 用家,當 D2H 推出的時候,我曾經狠狠提出批評。)

I did detailed testing (if you search the messages you'll find some of the stuff) and the results were not good news for Nikon. As the result of that, I became a Canon shooter, and still am. (當時,我做過詳細的測試,各位可以搜尋我的發言紀錄,提出很不利於 Nikon 的關點。於是,我改用 Canon 器材,目前仍然使用 Canon 器材。)

Tonights experience with the D3 has really changed my mind about Nikon. (今天晚上使用 D3 的經驗,讓我對於 Nikon 改變看法。)

The camera "FEELS" great in your hand. The controls are really well placed (as they have been in most Nikon Cameras). The Auto focus was SPOT on and VERY VERY fast (even under night time baseball lighting) 這部相機握在手理得『感覺』很棒。各種控制鈕的安排很恰當( Nikon 始終是如此)。 自動 對焦 很準 ,而且 非常、非常 快(即使是在夜間打棒球的燈光下)。

While all of that I expected from the camera, there was something I never expected. The image quality was BY FAR the BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN in a digital camera. The detail in the images was STUNNING. 〔雖然這些都是預料得到的,但有些東西,則是我始料未及的。影像畫質是我 截至目前為止看過最棒 的數位相機。影像的細節令人 嘆為觀止 。〕

The camera was set for iso 2000 when it was handed to me, and I must be honest and say that they looked BETTER then the iso 800 I was shooting with my Canon Mark II. The color was pure and rich. 〔當相機交給我的時候, ISO 設定為 2000 ,我必須承認影像看起來 優於 我的 Canon Mark II 設定為 ISO 800 。色彩很純、色澤豐富。〕

Just for fun, I turned up the iso to 3200 and to my astonishment, it still looked BETTER then my 800 iso on my Mark II. Both in color and in noise. 〔基於好玩,我把 ISO 調到 3200 ,結果令我訝異,不論在色澤或雜訊方面,仍然 優於 Mark II ISO 800 。〕

The noise is NOT ONLY very low, BUT, the quality of what noise there is (unlike the D2H) was pleasing. One of the problems I had with the D2H was not only the amount of noise, but the QUALITY of it. The D3 changes all of that. 〔雜訊 不只很低 ,而且雜訊在 方面也看起來舒服(不同於 D2H )。我對於 DH 的意見,不只在於雜訊的嚴重程度,而且在於雜訊的 D3 的情況完全不同。〕

The final test came when I opened the images in Photoshop. I must say, if I didn't shoot them myself, I never ever would have believed that they were iso 2000 and 3200. They look like 400 and 640 (only better) then my Mark II. 〔最後的測試,是在 PS 裡面打開影像。老實說,如果不是我自己拍的,我根本就不信這些影像的 ISO 2000 3200 。看起來就像我的 Mark II 400 640 (只會更好)。〕

Finally, the level of detail that the camera captures goes FAR BEYOND anything I have ever experienced in ANY digital camera . 〔最後是擷取影像的細節程度,這 遠超越 我所使用過的 任何 數位相機。〕

So, my hats off to you NIKON.... I only wish you would have done this sooner, before I spent tens of thousands switching to Canon....... 〔所以,讓我對 Nikon 脫帽致意……不幸地,這一切是發生在我花了好幾萬塊轉換到 Canon 之後。〕

Perhaps there is a Nikon switch in my future. 〔將來我或許會再轉回 Nikon 。〕



Ed
--
Ed Betz

 

When I got to work on Saturday at Shea Stadium in NY, I was surprised to see the Nikon Rep back for a Day Game. 〔星期六,當我回到紐約體育館,很意外又看到那位 Nikon 代表拍攝日間的比賽。〕

He had with him the D3 again and a 600mm lens to go along with the 400mm lens I shot the night before. 〔他拿著 D3 600mm 的鏡頭,還有前一天晚上我使用的 400mm 鏡頭。〕

Now keep in mind, most of the conversations I had with him were between innings, or pitcher changes. So there were a short series of conversations. 〔請瞭解,我跟他的談話都發生在交換攻防或換投手的空檔。所以,我們的談話很簡短。〕

I expressed interest in using the camera again in the daylight. He happily agreed. 〔我表示很想在日間使用他的相機試試。他很樂意接受。〕

I will say, I was prepared to be less impressed with the daytime images. I fully expect an image that is shot at 100 iso or 200 iso to look great with any camera. 〔我必須說,日間拍攝的影像,結果應該不會讓我更覺得印象深刻。 ISO 如果設定為 100 200 ,任何相機的影像都會很不錯的。〕

In my hand the camera felt really good again. I spent a little more time messing around with the focus, tracking moving people, trying to lock on to something and something else passed by, turning and locking on something else quickly (as in – fly ball, go from batter to shortstop – and nail him, no jumping around). 〔相機握起來的感受還是很棒。我花了一點時間撥弄對焦、追蹤活動的人,試著鎖定某些東西,如果有東西進入畫面,相機很快又鎖定對焦(就如同飛球,由打擊區飛到游擊手的手套,一下子就鎖定了,不會猶豫不決。〕

The Nikon performed flawlessly in every instance. The autofocus was outstanding in daylight. 〔相機表現得毫無瑕疵。白天的自動對焦表現太棒了。〕

The 600 lens was sharp, and it was nice to be able to shoot a pitcher with a 600 again. Shooting him with a 400 just doesn’t look the same. For those who don’t understand the difference, its really about depth of field and compression. The 600 looks much nicer, but I digress. 600 的鏡頭很利,用 600 的鏡頭拍攝投手,感覺很好。 400 的鏡頭沒辦法產生類似的感覺。各位如果不瞭解其中差別,最主要是景深的問題。 600 看起來的感覺很妙,不過這是題外話。〕

So, after shooting, I put the card into my laptop and the fun began 〔拍完之後,我把卡片塞到手提電腦,有趣的事情開始了。〕

Let me stress that the lighting was HARSH. There was bright sunlight, not a cloud in the sky and heavy shadows - ball players wearing white uniforms, and black hats with heavy shadows over their eyes. This can be a real nightmare; you are between a rock and a hard place. If you shoot for the shadow the whites are blown out and if you shoot for the whites the shadows turn almost black. 〔讓我強調一點,白天的陽光很 刺眼 。豔陽高照,沒有雲,沒有濃陰。球員穿著白色的服裝,戴著黑色帽子,臉部有明顯的陰影。這是相當棘手的情況。如果以暗部曝光,亮部就爆掉;如果以亮部曝光,暗部就一片漆黑。〕

Man was I surprised by two things. First, the white were never hot or blown out and the shadows had plenty of detail. It confirmed what I had heard about the dynamic range of the camera. I can say for certain, My Mark II doesn’t handle that lighting condition well. 〔有兩點讓我覺得意外。第一,亮部都沒有爆掉,暗部充滿細節。這驗證了我聽到有關這部相機動態區間的說法。我相當確定,我的 Mark II 對於光線的處理沒有那麼好。〕

The images had a really nice creamy quality to the out of focus background, and the images were tack sharp. How sharp? Like nothing I have ever seen before. 〔脫焦背景的奶油味很重,主體本身非常銳利。有多銳利?我從來沒有見過的那種程度。〕

Every hair on the back of a players neck (yes those little almost white hairs) can be seen and counted. Every eyelash, perfectly defined in a way I have never experienced before. 〔球員的髮絲清晰可見,甚至可以計數。每根眼睫毛都看得清楚,我從來沒有類似的經驗。〕

One of the things I have to do from time to time is upsize a photo. The place I was shooting for has minimum requirements for file size. So every now and then I have to take an image in photoshop and res it up a little. 〔我有時候需要放大照片。我工作的地方,沒有嚴格要求檔案大小。所以,我有時候會進入 PS 把影像稍微放大。〕

Not all images (cameras) handles this the same way. In some instances, it becomes clear right away that while the file is bigger, the images looks like hell. 〔不是所有的影像(相機)的表現都完全相同。某些情況下,即使檔案很大,但影像看起來還是很糟。〕

Just for fun, I took a photo, cropped it to about 900 pixels in one direction and then res’ed it up to 2000 pixels (nothing fancy, just did it in four steps – 1100 – 1300 – 1600 – 2000) like I always would. 〔基於好玩的心理,我把某個影像的一邊大約裁切 900 畫素,然後放大為 2000 畫素(沒有涉及特別技巧,就是分幾個階段放大, 1100-1300-1600-2000 ),就像我平常做的。〕

The D3 handled that better then anything I had ever seen. D3 的表現優於我過去所見過的其他相機。〕

WOW – I could not only count every eyelash, but I noticed – I can see the veins in the pitchers eyes… Very unexpected! 〔老天!我不只可以計算眼睫毛,甚至可以看到投手眼睛內的微血管……實在沒想到!〕

Just for fun, I also shot into the fans (the upper section) and there were about 30 people in the frame. I zoomed in, and sure enough I could tell what time it said on one man’s watch. UNREAL… 〔我也拍了一些球迷(最上層的觀眾),鏡頭裡大約有 30 個人。在 PS 裡面,我把影像拉近,我可以看到其中一個人手錶上的時間,了不起………。〕

The level of detail (I’ve come to understand pixels aren’t everything – it’s about detail) is extraordinary. 〔細節程度確實不同凡響(我知道畫素不代表一切,重點是細節)。〕

So, as with my night time shooting, the daytime shooting left me very impressed with the D3. 〔所以,就如同夜間試拍的結果一樣,白天拍攝結果也讓我印象深刻。〕

I wish I spent more time with it. I’d loved to get my hands on one for a week or two and really put it through some paces. 〔我希望能夠多試一陣子,或許一、兩個禮拜,讓我好好測試一番。〕

If I could afford it, I would probably switch back for this camera. I never wanted to leave Nikon. In fact – Like Ronald Reagan said about becoming a Republican, he never left the Democrat party, they left him. I feel that way about Nikon, I didn’t leave them, they left me. Perhaps it’s time to return… There are other issues for me now (pool glass etc) but who knows. 〔如果禁受得起的話,我可能會轉回 Nikon 。我從來沒有想要離開 Nikon 。事實上,如同雷根總統對於自己成為共和黨員所說的,他從來不想離開民主黨,而是民主黨離開了他。我對於 Nikon 的感覺也一樣,我沒有離開他們,是他們拋棄我。或許,這是回家的時間了……。當然,現在還有其他的問題( Nikon 的鏡頭還是比較弱),但誰知道……。〕

 

--
Ed Betz


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iskay


網路會員

81) 2007/09/18 16:48 
我想 如果看過魯獅的作品,
應該不難發現1D D2、D3之類頂級機之於他,
主要只剩耐摔、快門耐用度高的價值...
應該只是發表個人使用狀況的觀點罷了
何時他變成C家鐵衛隊了!?(應該是另一個C康泰時,呵呵)
N家、KM、P家都有死忠粉絲呀!何必呢!
就像以我個人業餘使用而言,
1DsIII比D3多出1000萬的畫素,但連拍慢很多,
即使只比D3多出5萬元(實際應該10萬),
我也不會選1DsIII!我寧願拿價差買大三元!
但對某些客戶層來說,10萬換1000萬畫素是值得的
可也必要對我的觀點疵之以鼻吧!

D3這次確實明顯把1DIII壓了下去(價差很小)
一些微不足道的超小缺點(有的甚至不算缺點)
被拿出來講,以過往經驗看來也不奇怪吧
當初1DsII、1DII和D2系列的差距比今天更大,
還不是有粉絲祭出全幅無用論、APS是最佳解的說法!
本來以為N也出FF後,這種爭吵會少很多,沒想到...

推薦者: aniceb2k

kdlee


網路會員

82) 2007/09/18 17:59 

某些題材上, 確實是經驗可cover 器材的不足
但在某些題材, 高階的器材就絕對有其必要及方便性了

每種等級的器材都有其目標客群
或許高階的機身性能對某些人不重要, 但對某些需要的人卻是無價的
最重要的是千萬不要只以自己的需求來看產品, 甚而批評不同層次的產品


推薦者: jenhoxen, jom1216

jom1216


網路會員

83) 2007/09/18 19:57 
D3 的好
是無庸置疑的
我只是認為太貴
就以D3跟D300來比較
幾乎只差在片幅大小
卻差了10萬

希望N迷不要太溺愛nikon
多毒舌一點
才能更好又更便宜

魯獅

部落格(8)
論壇版主

84) 2007/09/18 20:07 
我想,長久以來大家都被Canon全幅單眼的高價位壟斷而習慣了,認為只要是高階相機就一定要高價位才買得到.

好比多年前申請一支市內電話就要一萬七千元,當時我的薪水一個月才2800元而已,一台20吋彩視要價28000元,後來一支中華電信門號一個月的基本費是1800元.

現在呢?申請ADSL就免費送一個市話門號,也許將來買一顆鏡頭就送一台數位全幅單眼機也有可能,要不然,鏡頭賣給誰呀!

以前申請市話還要帶戶口名簿(一戶限一門號),檢查是否有申請過門號的章戳,如今,一支市話3000元,看您要申請多少都沒限制.手機的基本費現在最便宜的是一個月88元,還可以抵通信費,手機還0元呢.20吋彩視現在的價格平均都在5000元左右而已.

3~4年前去買列表機的墨水匣,一組4色要價1200元,買一台附有相同墨水匣的全新列表機,才賣1300元,我當然丟了舊的重買新的了.

高畫素全幅單眼是未來的趨勢,一台3000萬畫素的全幅單眼只要2~3萬元就買得到了,不是不可能喔!但到那時候,恐怕大家反而會嫌它太笨重了,眼鏡型,手挽型.....各種不同造型的千萬畫素袖珍迷你DC,才是大家的最愛.

30多年前的黑白電視,都裝在一個大木箱,裏頭裝了好幾個大喇叭,有的還附有收音機和唱片機,呎吋最大的只到25吋,現在呢,薄薄的一片掛牆上,一點兒也不佔用空間,動輒就是42~72吋螢幕.

推薦者: aniceb2k

jom1216


網路會員

85) 2007/09/18 20:22 
一台3000萬畫素的全幅單眼只要2~3萬元就買得到了
-----
這是不可能的

會有通貨膨脹
到時候的2-3萬...買不到甚麼東西
還是實際點
如果真有可能
那你 我到那時候
恐怕是黃泉有知阿

魯獅

部落格(8)
論壇版主

86) 2007/09/18 20:46 
50多年前俺老爸要買一台單車(大輪車,鐵馬,自行車,腳踏車)犒賞我第一次月考成績拿到全班第一名,花了他在糖廠工作半年的薪水.

數十多年後的我,同樣是薪水階級,我卻可以半個月的薪水買到一部二手轎車來代步.

也許幾年後,台幣,港幣和人民幣對美元的匯率是一致的,也許還同步呢?(1元台幣=1塊美金)花2~3萬元台幣買一台3000萬畫素的全幅機不是不可能的.

世事難料呀!(颱風天是抬槓的日子)




推薦者: aniceb2k

rock


網路會員

87) 2007/09/18 21:15 
魯獅大大
有夢雖好
但要一美元換一台幣那是不可能的事情

wangkevin0715


網路會員

88) 2007/09/18 22:06 


原發文者: 魯獅 發文時間: 2007/09/18 14:37

1D MKIII就只是連拍速度夠快,對焦夠快,就要賣15萬,如果是我,它連填大海的資格都沒有呢!只能臭水溝裏頭躺..(恕刪)

-請在此輸入回應-
版主確定1D MKIII 就只是連拍快 對焦快,完全沒想到其他功能就說它他連填大海資格都沒有? 難怪你對D3印像也是如此,我相信今天如果給你一台3000畫素、對焦快、連拍速度快,但是ISO400的時後雜訊嚴重,我相信你也買不下去,相機的價位要參考他周邊的功能才評價他值不值得買。更重要的是消費者要廠商降價有點難,只好在自已的預算內去評比那家的相機功能比較符合自已需要。

louiselisa


網路會員

89) 2007/09/18 22:26 
原發文者: 魯獅 發文時間: 2007/09/18 20:46
數十多年後的我,同樣是薪水階級,我卻可以半個月的薪水買到一部二手轎車來代步..(恕刪)

呵,那是您老會賺錢!現在社會新鮮人要工作一年才能買台二手轎車(35萬),工作一個月才能買台400D or D40啦!

不能這樣比啦


推薦者: POOOOOP

peterpancl


網路會員

90) 2007/09/19 00:04 
上面大家的回覆有趣...
一方面覺得D3不貴, 因為有xx等等功能,
一方面又覺沒能像魯獅北北這麼會賺錢.

我在想, 如果同一個東西能用10萬買, 為什麼我要付15萬呢?
再說, 能保證尼康, 或者進一步說, 能保證國祥不會借力使力多砍大家幾刀嗎?

雖說從全球的角度來看, 尼康是不缺台灣的量,
台灣這出不起尼康要的價格, 可以賣給其它地方,
但國祥總不是吃素的, 要發薪水, 也得付房租...
嘗鮮的人一定有, 這一刀他們先挺著吧,
等國祥或水貨商進的貨出不去, 電子產品價格持續下滑(出下一代不算),
你說D3不趕快降都不行,
萬一行貨死不降, 那估計水貨也會跳水, 賺多賺少比不賺強吧!?

廠商定價,降價有一定市場資訊來做出決定,
但不要忘了這"市場"也包含了你我,
不要被多砍了一刀還幫人數鈔票...

強烈建議大家.......忍
什麼題材讓D2x, D200, F6, F100暫時拍不了?

jom1216


網路會員

91) 2007/09/19 00:59 
沒錯!
我也支持P大的論述
別太急著下手或勸敗
當然啦
如果是有需要的人
或者不差這點折舊費
自然是先買先享受啦!

didadida

部落格(16)
終身 VIP

92) 2007/09/21 20:59 

著名 PS 作家 Scott Kelby 發表一些他使用 Nikon D3 的感想:

 

http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2007/archives/571

 

部分內容如下:

 

Although I didn’t get a chance to shoot with the Nikon D3 during the morning shoot, I spent hours with it tonight at our dusk shoot, and I have to say; not only does it live up to it’s hype, I’d have to say it actually exceeds it. There are a lot of things to love about the D3, but the lack of noise is far beyond what I had ever imagined (and I had heard stories of people raving about the low noise, but you’ve really got to see it in person to believe it).

 

我雖然沒有機會在清晨使用Nikon D3,但傍晚時分則有幾個鐘頭的時間拍攝。我必須說,這部相機不只承受得起人們的讚嘆,事實上還超過人們的形容。D3有很多深得我喜愛的地方,但雜訊處理能力則超越我的想像(關於雜訊,我雖然聽過人們的讚美,但各位必須親眼看到才會相信。)

 

I haven’t done any lab research on this, just some field shooting yesterday and today, but when I look at images shot at 1600 ISO on the D3, they look images taken on my D2x at 400 ISO. You just can’t believe what you’re seeing. Bill did a demo for the class last night, and even showed images shot at 6400 ISO and there were literally gasps in the room at the low levels of noise. You’ve gotta understand; this isn’t just an improvement in the noise and detail—this is way beyond that. Without sounding corny (though it still will), this is like a new dawn in the digital camera era, and now I can see where noise will soon be a non-issue. I was fully expecting to be impressed with the D3’s low noise, but I honestly wasn’t prepared for this. I was blown away. We all were.

 

我雖然沒有做過正式的測試,只是昨天與今天拍了一些影像,但當我看到D3拍攝的IS0 1600影像,看起來就像D2X拍攝的ISO 400影像。你絕對不會相信自己所看到的。比爾昨天晚上在課堂上做展式,甚至展式一些ISO 6400的影像,大家都看了目瞪口呆。各位千萬要瞭解,這已經不是雜訊與細節的改善;實際上遠超過這種程度。聽起來或許有些陳腔濫調,這就像是數位相機的黎明到來;不久之後,雜訊可能不再是問題了。我早就預料D3的雜訊處理能力很了不起,但實在沒有想到這種程度。我實在看呆了,我們都是。

exc71981


網路會員

93) 2007/09/22 10:25 
本則留言已移到保留區

shanwey


網路會員

94) 2007/09/22 19:32 
HOBA兄您那篇是勸拜文吧 haha

你的觀點大部分的人可能會認同,但是其實要做到這些你所謂的工夫並不難,更不需要花費十年練功,我看一兩個月就OK了,各位好好練,就可以省很多錢,月入數十萬喔,哈哈

didadida

部落格(16)
終身 VIP

95) 2007/09/27 07:36 

didadida

部落格(16)
終身 VIP

96) 2007/09/29 07:09 

Nikon USA D3 官方照片

 

Firefighter : Nikon D3, ISO 200, 1/10, f/16, Cloudy WB, AF Zoom 24-70mm f/2.8G at 70mm, 5.2MB

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Joe_McNally_Firefighter_ISO200.jpg

 

Swan : Nikon D3, ISO 400, 1/1600, f/5.6, Auto WB, AF VR 400mm f/2.8G IF-ED + TC-17E II, 3.4MB

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Corrado_Swan_ISO400.jpg

 

Monkey : Nikon D3, ISO 1600, 1/250, f/6.3, Auto WB, AF VR 400mm f/2.8G IF-ED + TC-17E II, 8.1MB

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Corrado_Monkey_ISO1600.jpg

 

Bats : Nikon D3, ISO 3200, 1/250, f/7.1, 5000K WB, AF VR 400mm f/2.8G IF-ED, 6MB

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Corrado_Baseball_Bats_ISO3200.jpg

 

Hockey : Nikon D3, ISO 6400, 1/1000, f/4, Sunny WB, AF Zoom 14-24mm f/2.8G at 14mm, 7.2MB

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Dave_Black_Ice_Hockey_ISO6400.jpg

 

Basketball : Nikon D3, ISO 6400, 1/250, f/7.1, 5000K WB, AF Zoom 24-70mm f/2.8G at 40mm, 6.3MB

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Dave_Black_Basketball_ISO6400.jpg


推薦者: loveada

didadida

部落格(16)
終身 VIP

97) 2007/09/29 07:55 

兩個Samples (轉到sRGB,稍做銳利化)

 

Firefighter

Monkey

 

 

 

 

 

 

ikarus


網路會員

98) 2007/09/30 13:36 
猴子眼睛裡可以看到欄杆喔!
我第一次覺得想買數位單眼相機。
不過我知道我沒有十幾萬可以花在這上面。暫時還是拍底片吧。

twfriday


網路會員

99) 2007/10/02 16:53 
細部真細膩...不過我也沒10多萬預算
暫時等等吧...

jack2007


網路會員

100) 2007/10/02 20:43 
貴?
有須要就不會貴啦!
iso6400 f/4 快門1/1000 曲棍球那張
若不是拜數位之賜 想即使底片iso6400
粒子也不可能這麼細吧?
或許明年iso25600 細膩度及雜訊效果就如今年iso100

50年前?? 一台單眼像機可能可以買下一棟透天厝喽?
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